Curse

nugzta · Oct 14, 2007, 09:36 AM // 09:36

I have different idea, how about letting all characters in the account to gain the title benefits from the highest rank of the titles that any of characters in that account have achieved.

For example, if your warrior has r6 Norn (highest of all characters in the account) and your mesmer has r5 asura (also the highest) then all of the characters have the same access. So all characters can access consumables, weapon, armor NPCs for norn and asura. Also the PvE skills for all characters are scaled at r5 asura and r6 norn.

This would reduce the grinding needed for all characters at the same time preventing max titles being "cheapened" by making it account wide.

freekedoutfish · Oct 14, 2007, 10:16 AM // 10:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by nugzta

I have different idea, how about letting all characters in the account to gain the title benefits from the highest rank of the titles that any of characters in that account have achieved.

For example, if your warrior has r6 Norn (highest of all characters in the account) and your mesmer has r5 asura (also the highest) then all of the characters have the same access. So all characters can access consumables, weapon, armor NPCs for norn and asura. Also the PvE skills for all characters are scaled at r5 asura and r6 norn.

This would reduce the grinding needed for all characters at the same time preventing max titles being "cheapened" by making it account wide.

You seem to be missing the point that rank 5 is NOT hard to get, especially now with the update. Any ranks past 5 are completely optional and even ranks 5-10 arent that hard either.

You get alot of points now from the handbooks and dungeon books. There is simply no excuse to try and argue that reputation ranks are hard and should be account based.

nugzta · Oct 14, 2007, 10:29 AM // 10:29

Yep its not hard to get FYI I have max Norn, max Asura, r8 Deldrimor, r8 Ebon Vanguard. But it is getting tedious if I have to go through all of those again in other several characters which obviously you dont really care because you just play only single character, your ele.

My solution is for convenience sake, increase the rep points requirement if you will, I'll grind them in one character as long as my other characters are allowed to have same benefit (but not have the title).

Quote:

Originally Posted by freekedoutfish

no excuse to try and argue that reputation ranks are hard and should be account based.

Read carefully what Im suggesting, Im not asking for them to be account wide. I dont need the titles because I have them already.

MithranArkanere · Oct 14, 2007, 12:41 PM // 12:41

Well, now that books and hard mode make 'so easy' to get points, At least they should let their other characters characters to share books(but NOT trading to other accounts). In the same way players can give the 'merit' of killing a boss with Tomes, they should be able to give the merit of killing other stuff.

getalifebud · Oct 14, 2007, 01:42 PM // 13:42

/Signed

Because I use all of my character slots, and after spending the money to get ale hound I would hate that it only shows when im doing stuff on my Necromancer. If Necromancers get nerfed then that hugely expensive title is worthless. Sweet tooth/drunkard should be shared like lucky and unlucky.

Sunspear should definitely be character only, EotN titles, im not sure... It would be great if their effect was shared like the Kurzick/Luxon title tracks, so I wouldnt have to grind the title for each character I want ready to do dungeons and get armor.

reverse_oreo · Oct 14, 2007, 02:51 PM // 14:51

/signed. Titles that give some kind of PvE reward such as LB or SS should not be included in this. But for sure the rest of the grinds...i mean look at lucky and unlucky.

freekedoutfish · Oct 14, 2007, 05:37 PM // 17:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by nugzta

Yep its not hard to get FYI I have max Norn, max Asura, r8 Deldrimor, r8 Ebon Vanguard. But it is getting tedious if I have to go through all of those again in other several characters which obviously you dont really care because you just play only single character, your ele.....

Well my responce to that is..

1) You knew when you created a new character, you would have to play the same content over and over and over again, so that is no excuse to then complain because you have to re-do the same stuff. Its like shooting yourself in the foot and then complaining a bullet came out and blew it off.

You can't create a new char and then complain that re-doing the same content is grind!

2) Why do you need ranks above 5 on all your characters? What critical hold do the pve only skills have over your gameplay that each and every character you own needs them to be maxed out?

Rank 5 is easy to reach on a new char, so armor and weapon are easy to achieve for each character you own and take in GWEN. I can only assume this is about the pve only skills. So why are those so important that each char can use them and have them be maxed out?

The answer is they hold no critical aspect in GWEN. If you choose to max your ranks out on every char you have then its no ones choice by your own.

No one is forcing you, or pressuring you into it. If these pve only skills were critical and the game couldnt be done without them, I would agree. But nothing which requires ranks above 5, is important.

Its all optional and choice. You cant blame Anet or other players, if you take that choice and spend hours increasing those ranks. So there is NO need for them to be account based.

I could understand maybe if we were talking about LB and SS points, because those ranks are harder to reach and higher maxed. But even those arent that important to have at max levels because LB gaze is just as effective at rank 1. The only advantage you get is hitting more targets at once. It doesnt increase dmg levels.

bilateralrope · Oct 14, 2007, 09:39 PM // 21:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by freekedoutfish

So your only talking about replaying the main quests in NM to get a very easy 40k in points. More in HM!

Is that really too much to ask?

Repeating a task you had no problem with when you completed it the first time is what I call grinding. Sure there is a line between acceptable grinding and unacceptable, but I really have no idea where to put it so I'm going against all grinding.

If you have somewhere you want a line to be put, please state exactly where it is and why you are putting it there.

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Do that about 5-6 times for each race and your sorted.

So, 20 to 24 repeats ?

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I thought the whole point of playing GWs in PvE was to do quests and dungeons. So why are you botherd about having to replay such things?

People will redo the parts of guild wars the enjoy without the title to encourage them.

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Your not being forced to bounty hunt anymore.

So we have one type of grinding switched for another.

Anyway your complaints are only about the GW:EN reputation titles. So are you going to object to the other ones, or bring up a reason why the GW:EN reputation titles are different enough so that they shouldn't be changed when the other grind titles are ?

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Originally Posted by Snow Bunny

BilateralRope, your reasons in the OP aren't very good regardless.

Whats not good about them ?
Are you going to provide any better reasons as to why the non-pvp titles should all be character based ?

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"Reducing hassle" - whatever, I mean, just F12 and switch. If that is hassle to you, then woe be unto you should you ever have to go to a social security office/DMV.

Its not simple hitting f12 and switching. Its also moving the item you want to identify or salvage though storage to the character going for wisdom, then moving the item back to whichever character is going to use it.

So why should a game we play for enjoyment have this hassle in it ?

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My complete problem with the mindset behind your suggestion, and most suggestions of this sort in Sardelac is that your asking for what is achievable in existence to simply be watered down and made easier.

There is a difference between a title being easy and a title being quick to achieve. The grind titles are easy because the tasks involved are pretty easy, they only take so long to achieve because you have to keep repeating those same tasks over and over.

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I don't like the PvP titles, personally. The emotes were just there pre-title, and they're a relic of the old days.

The whole title system just brings out the avarice in most people. Now you're asking ANet to pander even more to a lazier and lazier mindset.

I could supposedly see the Wisdom title being made account wide, and conceivably the treasure hunter title. But lightbringer and SS should remain the way they are, if only for game mechanic purposes

What game mechanic purposes ?

Quote:

Originally Posted by freekedoutfish

Well my responce to that is..

1) You knew when you created a new character, you would have to play the same content over and over and over again, so that is no excuse to then complain because you have to re-do the same stuff. Its like shooting yourself in the foot and then complaining a bullet came out and blew it off.

You can't create a new char and then complain that re-doing the same content is grind!

Different classes play differently, meaning that redoing a mission with a different character makes it play differently.

Quote:

2) Why do you need ranks above 5 on all your characters? What critical hold do the pve only skills have over your gameplay that each and every character you own needs them to be maxed out?

Why should people who can complete tasks be restricted from getting stat bonuses simply because they prefer doing other things instead of repeating that task that gives them no trouble at all ?

For games where you pay per month this is easy to understand because the devs want you to keep you subscribed for longer, meaning more money for them. But guild wars isn't a pay per month game.

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Rank 5 is easy to reach on a new char, so armor and weapon are easy to achieve for each character you own and take in GWEN. I can only assume this is about the pve only skills. So why are those so important that each char can use them and have them be maxed out?

And because I see no reason why the change should apply to all grind titles except the GW:EN ones.

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I could understand maybe if we were talking about LB and SS points, because those ranks are harder to reach and higher maxed. But even those arent that important to have at max levels because LB gaze is just as effective at rank 1. The only advantage you get is hitting more targets at once. It doesnt increase dmg levels.

Don't forget the damage reduction when facing LB effected foes.

nugzta · Oct 15, 2007, 02:19 AM // 02:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by freekedoutfish

Rank 5 is easy to reach on a new char, so armor and weapon are easy to achieve for each character you own and take in GWEN. I can only assume this is about the pve only skills. So why are those so important that each char can use them and have them be maxed out?

Well guess what? You are wrong, remove the PvE skills scaling up in my suggestion, I wont be disappointed either. I never need PvE skills unless Im doing HM or grinding for the the title itself. IMO PvE skills are merely tool for hardcore players to do harder challenge (HM). Never need them in normal PvE, wont be likely doing HM other than my primary character.

For me, Id like to be able to access the armor, nothing else matters to me. Been there, done it so it is reasonable to get exemption or leeway rather than doing them all over again. Getting r5 titles for 5+ characters can be quite tedious especially my other characters are not primarily for PvE purpose. But then again this never concerns you as you play only a single character.

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No one is forcing you, or pressuring you into it. If these pve only skills were critical and the game couldnt be done without them, I would agree. But nothing which requires ranks above 5, is important.

Read what I wrote in the first part, dont make stupid assumption. I agree what you saying there I can even play normal PvE with empty skillbar to show how easy PvE is, no PvE skills are required.

On the side note, it seems you are trying to make PvE skills limited to elite/hardcore players which Im not against or care about it (since Im hardcore myself). But remember relying too much on overpowered skills can make you bad player.

freekedoutfish · Oct 15, 2007, 08:31 AM // 08:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by bilateralrope

Different classes play differently, meaning that redoing a mission with a different character makes it play differently.

Right, im not saying otherwise. But you choose to start a new character, knowing fine well you will have to replay all the content again.

So how can you and others complain about having to re-earn points?

Quote:

Originally Posted by nugzta

Read what I wrote in the first part, dont make stupid assumption. I agree what you saying there I can even play normal PvE with empty skillbar to show how easy PvE is, no PvE skills are required.

On the side note, it seems you are trying to make PvE skills limited to elite/hardcore players which Im not against or care about it (since Im hardcore myself). But remember relying too much on overpowered skills can make you bad player.

I assumed you were against the grind in connection to the pve only skills, because I find it absolutely laughable that you think unlocking armor in GWEN is hard or requires grind.

Something is only grind if your required to achieve it outside of the storyline. Rank 5 on all races is very easily attained by just doing all quests, dungeons and taking bounties as you explore and move through the game.

Dont agrue otherwise because I did it. I had rank 5 on all races within 2 weeks of playing. And it wasnt hardcore playing, it was casual playing of a few hours a night.

And where in gods name did you get the impression Im trying to push pve only skills onto elite players. Have you read any posts ive wrote concerning pve only skills?

I've continually said that pve only skills are not critical to anything. I dont see why people see any importance in them. It really bewilders me when you get players trying to suggest that certain areas or zones (i.e elite areas) require you to use them.

This is my entire arguement...

1) Rank 5 on all races for armor and weapons is extremely easy to achieve. It can be done by just playing the entire game. Its even easier now with the handbook updates in NM and HM. There is nothing wrong with finishing the game before you get access to armor and weapons.

2) Ranks above 5 are compeltely optional because pve only skills and status effects are not critical to anything. That is the message im trying to get accross to people.

Are you suggesting that you shouldnt be asked to complete the game first on a character before you get access to stuff like armor and weapons? If you are, then IMO you are lazey and being unrealistic. Every game on the market nearly expects you to complete the game first before you unlock content.

Why should GWs be any different?

What this comes down to is you want to take a new char into GWEN and buy them new armor instantly without having to finish the game and earn points first. That is not a valid reason to make repuation points account wide.

Plus the max levels for reputation is not the big. 200k is not alot of points compared to other titles like luxon or kuzack or wisdom or treasure hunter. Especially when you can earn 56k by the time you finish the game on all races easily.

You then have to choose which reputation race to increase! If you want to max them all, then that is your choice. If you choose one or none, then fine.

But your not being forced or pressured into increasing ranks above 5 because nothing is critical which requires above rank 5. I really cant understand why you got the impression Im trying to incourage the use of pve only skills in anyway. Im not! Im trying to get this idea accross that pve only skills dont have to be used.

Ive personally used only 1 or 2 and that was only in the last couple of GWEN quests. Otherwise I never use them and I seem to manage along with all the other players who dont use them.

Its just about wanting these oober strong skills maxed out the instant you unlock them, when you dont need them.

MithranArkanere · Oct 15, 2007, 11:49 AM // 11:49

There's something you forget. It's already done with all PvP titles, including Luxon/Kurcick.

Yeah, playing as a monk and sas an Elementalist is COMPLETELY different.
So, how come in PvP it's just the same? Because people delete characters more often? But not, tournament point rewards are not shared between characters, and they have to keep their PvP characters to keep those rewards, haven't they? So...

We end up in that. At the very end, choosing character instead account it's not a good idea.

nugzta · Oct 15, 2007, 02:31 PM // 14:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by freekedoutfish

I assumed you were against the grind in connection to the pve only skills, because I find it absolutely laughable that you think unlocking armor in GWEN is hard or requires grind.

Well 26k x 6 character = 156k rep points, nearly 1 maxed title but thats not the problem. The thing is not as easy as go there and grind it. For example all my non characters have incomplete list of heroes, non max level of heroes, heroes not well equipped, etc. These make things more time consuming and money to do so. Doing all that just to get a piece of armor such spectacles or woad is not worth the time.

If I can do all the work in one character which I design as my primary in pve, therefore it is more convenience that way (I even suggested to require higher rep points for this privilege if needed).

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Are you suggesting that you shouldnt be asked to complete the game first on a character before you get access to stuff like armor and weapons? If you are, then IMO you are lazey and being unrealistic. Every game on the market nearly expects you to complete the game first before you unlock content.

As I said been there, done it and already unlock the content by my primary character. Repeating storyline, yeah when I was scrub I would do it (finished proph 6 times and factions 8 times, god I wished I never did that) and then I realized whats the point of doing it.

It is fun doing for the first time (or maybe second time) because it is still new and unexpected. But after that it becomes too predictable, repetitive, unchallenging and boring. You know what you are up against, tricks, shortcuts, etc because PvE is so static.

Also by the same logic, consumable items and eotn crafted weapons should be exclusive to the people who has the required ranks, right? Therefore these must be customized and cannot be traded to other people who dont have the required titles.

freekedoutfish · Oct 15, 2007, 03:44 PM // 15:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by nugzta

Also by the same logic, consumable items and eotn crafted weapons should be exclusive to the people who has the required ranks, right? Therefore these must be customized and cannot be traded to other people who dont have the required titles.

Sorryy but I just find it really bizarre that some people are complaining about re-doing the exact same content when they create a new char in pve. You have to ask what did you expect?

Ofcourse you have to redo the same missions, quests, dungeons, exploration, re-earn gold and armor and weapons and re-capture skills and so on! Thats obvious! How can you complain?

I assume you all play FPS or RTS games? you all complete those games and then replay them? Do you complain about having to redo the same stuff, or does it just end up on your shelf and you buy a new game to play? Its no different. You cant winge about creating a new char and needing to re-d0 all the same stuff. Its a bit daft!

Your obviously going to get bored eventually with the game, especially if you play 9 chars at the same time and dont take it slow. I play one main character 90% of the time and its lasted 2 years. I might go back to my necro or ranger and do them for another 2 years.

You just have to play the game with some common sense and dont rush 9 chars out at once, and then complain its all the same stuff your doing.

Imagine you tried to read 9 books at once and then within a month you had read them all. Whats left to read? Nothing! But had you read one at a time for a month each, it lasts longer!

Its those players who rush out 9 chars at once who complain about grind and having to re-do the same old stuff 9 times over! Where as me with my one main char does it once or twice and I still have lots of content left. Then I can go back to a new char.

I dont want to tell people how to play... but if you play in a manor that sucks up all the content really fast and reduces the life-span of the game really fast, then its your own fault.

Play slower, and play fewer chars at once and play them to their full potential and then move on. You get alot more life span from the gaame and it doesnt feel as long-winded.

nugzta · Oct 15, 2007, 04:28 PM // 16:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by freekedoutfish

Sorryy but I just find it really bizarre that some people are complaining about re-doing the exact same content when they create a new char in pve. You have to ask what did you expect?

Well here is the thing, back in the beginning everyone was PvE scrub including me, so it is natural for them to try out different classes and stuck with many characters in the end. I expected was to gain greater knowledge about the game by learning what each class has to offer, and I did.

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I assume you all play FPS or RTS games? you all complete those games and then replay them? Do you complain about having to redo the same stuff, or does it just end up on your shelf and you buy a new game to play? Its no different. You cant winge about creating a new char and needing to re-d0 all the same stuff. Its a bit daft!

When I played these type of games, I played them online. You know these are PvP games when comes to online. So it is enjoyable since it is dynamic, unpredictable, challenging, etc compare to what I said about PvE earlier.

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Your obviously going to get bored eventually with the game, especially if you play 9 chars at the same time and dont take it slow. I play one main character 90% of the time and its lasted 2 years. I might go back to my necro or ranger and do them for another 2 years.

You just have to play the game with some common sense and dont rush 9 chars out at once, and then complain its all the same stuff your doing.

Im not planning to play all of them anymore (at least in PvE) because the reasons I stated previously. I actually play PvE when Im feeling BORED and/or when I cant play PvP.

Well it seems you did quick edit which I would have quoted some, last minute save. Considered I never see it.

Btw It seems you ignoring what I said previously

Quote:

Also by the same logic, consumable items and eotn crafted weapons should be exclusive to the people who has the required ranks, right? Therefore these must be customized and cannot be traded to other people who dont have the required titles.

freekedoutfish · Oct 15, 2007, 05:51 PM // 17:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by nugzta

Also by the same logic, consumable items and eotn crafted weapons should be exclusive to the people who has the required ranks, right? Therefore these must be customized and cannot be traded to other people who dont have the required titles.

Sorry i missed this bit...

...IMO I think its wrong that consumables which remove DP and protect against critical hits can be given or sold to lower level characters yes!

Atleast to anyone under lvl20 anyway!

But otherwise I dont mind who uses them, but I still dont mind the rank requirement to buy them in the first place because the rank needed is exstremley easy to attain.

nugzta · Oct 15, 2007, 05:54 PM // 17:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by freekedoutfish

Sorry i missed this bit...

...IMO I think its wrong that consumables which remove DP and protect against critical hits can be given or sold to lower level characters yes!

Atleast to anyone under lvl20 anyway!

But otherwise I dont mind who uses them, but I still dont mind the rank requirement to buy them in the first place because the rank needed is exstremley easy to attain.

Regardless you are still giving double standard which shows your inconsistence on this matter.

CHunterX · Oct 15, 2007, 08:47 PM // 20:47

/verysigned!

How about this: When you are low level, you only have access to a certain degree of the title you've earned on the account. You have a level 20 Warrior with Legendary Delver. You have a level 3 Monk, and since its level isn't maxed, the title for him/her isn't maxed either, and only goes so high per level.
Something like this, in regards to Deldrimor Title Track:
Level 1-5: Stout Delver (2)
Level 6-10: Risky Delver (4)
Level 11-15: Daring Delver (6)
Level 16-19: Courageous Delver (8)
Level 20: Legendary Delver (10)
---
Wisdom Title Track:
Level 1-5: Seeker of Wisdom (1)
Level 6-10: Devotee of Wisdom (3)
Level 11-15: Font of Wisdom (5)
Level 16-19: Oracle of Wisdom (6)
Level 20: Source of Wisdom (7)
---

You could even link access to title progress unlocked on the account to how far you are in in the story line of each particular track on a character, so it "follows lore." Here's Asuran Title Track as an example:
The Knowledgeable Asura: Not Too Dopey (2)
[Two of] Lab Space, Finding Gadd, A Little Help: Not Too Boring (4)
Finding the Bloodstone and The Elusive Golemancer: Not Too Grumpy (6)
Genius Operated Living Enchanted Manifestation: Not Too Lazy (8)
A Time for Heroes [Completing the game]: Not Too Shabby (10)

For Nightfall, its much easier, the way the missions are set up to require certain amounts of Rank. I'm not going to list them all, but you get the idea.

getalifebud · Oct 15, 2007, 09:08 PM // 21:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by freekedoutfish

I will find it astounding if this anyone still complains about the skills being connected to titles ranks anymore.

What on earth?

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Originally Posted by bilateralrope

- Grind based titles where you perform one task over and over again until you have enough points (minutes drunk, chests opened, etc) for the title.

This Is whats most important IMO, If I get drunk on one character, i want all characters to have that benefit, screw continuity, its not in my characters backstory that he didnt drink while my necromancer did.

Also treasure stuff should be shared like lucky/unlucky, I dont want to have to character swap for a higher chance to salvage well, and I dont want to only need to use my Necromancer for high end PvE because he retains lockpicks more often.

freekedoutfish · Oct 15, 2007, 09:38 PM // 21:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by nugzta

Regardless you are still giving double standard which shows your inconsistence on this matter.

explain that please?

wu is me · Oct 15, 2007, 09:58 PM // 21:58

Okay fish, you made your point

Sure, the titles can be obtained quite easily, simply by playing out the story, i don't think any1 is trying to disagree with you, so i don't think you need to repeat urself...

But ur kidding yourself if you think people only want account based titles out of laziness.
The main drawpoint of Account based titles is that, each of your characters will be able to wear full recognition of your aggregate achievements on the account.
This means that there will not have to be a tradeoff between variety
and achievement.

Now could you please explain why you see MERIT in NOT having account based titles?

EDIT: besides, its not just the EN titles we're talking about here. You can't possibly say that we shouldn't have account based Drunktard/ Treasure hunter etc because theyr "EASY"????